Barry Dean is a veteran Nashville songwriter whose songsĀ have been recorded by Carrie Underwood, Jason Aldean, Alison Krauss, Toby Keith, and more; but he doesn’t limit himself to strictly country. One of his most recent collaborations, “Girls Chase Boys” was a hit for Ingrid Michaelson on the Adult Contemporary and Pop charts. He spoke with American Songwriter about writing with Hunter Hayes, his big hit “Pontoon” forĀ Little Big Town, making the move from Marketing Director to songwriter, and more.
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When did you decide you wanted to pursue songwriting full time?
When I was young, I started writing as a kid. Secretly. It was something I dreamedĀ about, but I didnāt really understand what that meant. Saying you wanted to be aĀ songwriter in rural Kansas was almost like saying you wanted to go to the moon.Ā I gave it a little run (I went to LA) but quit dreaming when I was 20 or so. I guess evenĀ then, I wrote secretly, in my journals or on bits of paper. It wasnāt for another decade orĀ more before my wife, Jen, encouraged me to pursue songwriting more aggressively. IĀ started making trips back and forth between Kansas and Nashville, eventually moving toĀ Nashville.
Moving to Nashville really opened my eyes to the 110% commitment it takes to being aĀ writer full time. There isnāt anyone doing this full time who doesnāt want to be here moreĀ than anything else. I still think about those days, writing music in secret, and it is such aĀ blessing to be able to say I get to do this for a living now.
What was your last day job?
I was a Creative & Marketing Director for an Education company. I played manyĀ different roles there, eventually overseeing all of the marketing, curriculum and productĀ development. I realize now I was a shadow artist āĀ helping others pursue their creative passions while ignoring my own, but we were able toĀ help a lot of kids and teachers and grow the company so I am really proud of that time.Ā They were all pretty surprised when I became a songwriter in Nashville!
Story time. What’s the story behind the song “Tattoo?”
It was the day after Troy (Verges) and I wrote āDay Drinkingā with Little Big Town. HunterĀ was just getting back off the road, as in he literally got in 30 minutes before we wroteĀ that morning. He showed up and mentioned that he liked the idea of writing a song withĀ the word ātattoo.ā Hunter is always good about not going with the obvious, so we cameĀ up with the angle of the song coming from his perspective instead and the song just tookĀ off from there.
How about “Girls Chase Boys?”
We were working on an initial idea – a ballad – and it just kind of stalled. We decidedĀ to look around for a minute at other ideas. Trent had that little beat you hear in theĀ beginning of the song and I added a little piano riff in. I had the phrase, āGirls chaseĀ boys, chase girls,ā but didnāt know what to do with it…but Ingrid and Trent did!
That cool āohhā vocal phrase in the chorus is a case where the vocal hook really justĀ came from Ingrid playing around with her voice, trying to find the melody. I didnāt feel likeĀ we had to find words there, we could just enjoy her voice. Ingridās voice is like a FormulaĀ One car ā it can go to all these wonderful places.
I didnāt think much of the song after the write until I got a call that it was going to be theĀ first single off Ingridās record. Ingrid wasnāt feeling well during the write, but she wasĀ such a trooper. Thatās one of the fun things about songwriting, you never know whatĀ youāre going to get that day and where the song may end up!
When people put down modern country music, do you take it personally?
I think the reason why people love music in general is because the possibilities areĀ endless. There are so many genres and sub-genres to pick from and thatās whatĀ makes each song unique. There is no genre or time period where everything is greatĀ or everything is horrible. Songs can be interpreted in a lot of ways ā Billy Sherrill tookĀ flack for being too modern, Johnny Cash, Garth Brooks, Dolly Parton, Dixie Chicks, theyĀ all took flack at some point for what they were doing…and the list goes on. My job is toĀ show up, to do my best, bring the best out of myself and everyone in the writing room,Ā and try to create something that will impact whoever hears it. Iām grateful I get to have aĀ voice in that and be part of such a great community of songwriters.
How did you learn how to play guitar?
I started learning when I was making trips to Nashville. This didnāt seem like a very pianoĀ friendly town at the time. I started taking lessons with Ellen Britton and I still do as oftenĀ as possible because she helps me be a better player.
Who are your songwriting heroes?
Tough question. I probably have the same global list of iconic songwriters that everyoneĀ has (Beatles, Petty, Randy Newman, Henley, etc.), but I also have a list of localĀ songwriters who really helped me when I showed upā Mike Reid, Hugh Prestwood, TomĀ Douglas, Seskin, Don Schlitz, and it keeps going…so many.
Another songwriter hero for me is Roger Miller. I remember hearing him in the fourthĀ grade and becoming addicted to his songs. And also when I first heard John HiattāsĀ āBring The Familyā album, it changed the way I listened to music…from that point on IĀ listened for the writerās voice.
Truthfully, there are so may great writers to study, so many new young writers that IĀ get excited to write with and learn from and be inspired by. So my playlist is always thisĀ crazy mix of old and new and Tony Lane.
What was the first song you ever wrote? Tell us about it.
You might have to ask my mom that question! Iāve always been writing songs to helpĀ me process anything going on in my life. The first one I remember from childhoodĀ was one about my dad on Fatherās Day when I was in middle school. As a teenager IĀ started recording songs and foisting them on the world. Then, in my early twenties I justĀ stopped.
One of the first songs I wrote while I was going back and forth from Kansas to NashvilleĀ was a song called āMoving Oleta.ā I had written the song by myself and sort of byĀ accident, it ended up going into a pile to my publisher when I was first signed. The songĀ turned out to be my first cut by Reba.
Whatās the last song you wrote or started?
I wrote with Troy Verges and Jimbo Barry, a writer from the UK (who has written soĀ many of those cool songs for THE SCRIPT), on his first writing trip to Nashville. We hadĀ a wonderful time! Every day is a different deal; itās always something new and thatāsĀ what makes it exciting.
Whatās the best song you ever wrote?
The songs I tend to be the most proud of are the ones that say exactly what I wantedĀ to say. There are also other factors too ā like the surrounding stories around a song.Ā Thereās āMoving Oletaā which was my first cut and the first connection I had to bravelyĀ share what I was feeling. And then there was the song āGodās Willā which was inspiredĀ by my daughter. All of these songs have meant something to me in different ways andĀ encourage me to always be honest and to be myself in my songwriting.
How do you go about writing songs?
Before coming to Nashville I really only knew how to write by myself. Now, itās so muchĀ fun and interesting to write with other people. It goes so much faster when you haveĀ someone there to help you through all your second guesses.
The process of writing songs is always different depending on who I am writing with.Ā I really enjoy listening to artists during a co-write and finding the words to match theĀ emotions or melodies they bring to the room. Some come in with a really unique soundĀ like Brothers Osborne and weāre able to write a song that capitalizes on their sound, theirĀ instrumentation and their voices. Someone like Hunter will have lots of things he wantsĀ to say and heās capable of playing anything so itās just a matter of walking with him andĀ pointing him down these paths. Iāve also really enjoyed working with Little Big Town, theyĀ have great personalities and such amazing voices. Theyāve been really open to goingĀ out and trying new things. They each have their own uniqueness and I like being able toĀ serve that and magnify that.
What is your approach to writing lyrics?
In a sentence, Iām trying to find a fresh or unique way to tell the next truest thing. WithĀ any song idea, it takes on a lot of different forms depending on who Iām writing with andĀ what weāre trying to accomplish. Sometimes someone can have an idea and itās hearingĀ them sing nonsense syllables and you hear words from that. Another process is, if thereĀ isnāt a concrete idea, Iāll bring in titles and phrases. I do a lot of journaling and writingĀ about an idea. Hopefully itās inspiring to them and something they’ve been looking for. IĀ like to call these my fireflies in a jar ā sometimes they spark something.
What sort of things inspire you to write?
I think itās an important part of my job to stay inspired; to keep finding new inspiration. IĀ read a lot. I listen a lot. I live a lot. Also, I find when Iām writing with people, sometimesĀ they donāt realize that theyāre speaking in lyrics. One of the things Iāve tried to be betterĀ at is recognizing the song when it flies through the room; when someone says it, even ifĀ itās just in casual conversation.
Whatās a song youāre particularly proud of and why?
The first song that comes to mind would be āMoving Oletaā because Reba cut it and itĀ really kicked things off for me as a songwriter. I wasnāt living in Nashville and it was aĀ personal song for me. Reba ended up singing it on tour every night and that has a reallyĀ special place to me.
āPontoonā is also a really special song to me. Itās the first or second song that Luke andĀ Natalie and I ever wrote together and it was my first No. 1 song and also the first No. 1Ā song for Little Big Town. They are incredible people and great talents; we all got to rideĀ that song together and have great fun.
(Read the story behind “Pontoon”)
Iām also proud of the song āWhere We Left Off.ā Itās a song Hunter Hayes and I wroteĀ for the movie, āAct of Valor.ā One of my best friends as a kid, grew up to be a squadronĀ commander for special forces, drones. Heās a real hero; literally flew night visionĀ helicopters. I got the opportunity to help Hunter write this song for this movie honoringĀ Navy Seals and that allowed me to really express how much I thought of my friend andĀ his wife, it meant so much to be able to do that through this song.
Whatās a lyric or verse you’re particularly proud of?
Itās a lyric in the song āStill Down Hereā that I wrote with Lori McKenna. She asked meĀ to help her write a song about someone who was dying of cancer. The song is talkingĀ to the person who has gone away and about how that person is now happy. There isĀ a line in the song that says, āIāll tell you one thing, believeāem when they say, just donātĀ look down,ā because there are people still grieving. Thereās something about that line,Ā whenever I hear it, it still hurts.
Are there any words you love or hate?
I donāt know if I have any words on a hit list, but I have run across words during a writingĀ session that can feel limiting or misapplied. I love whenever I can tell that a writer isĀ telling the truth, their truth. Thatās something cool about songwriting, there can be a wordĀ that can be a complete misfit for one song and then be the perfect word when applied inĀ another song.
Whatās a song of yours thatās really touched people?
I mentioned this song earlier that I wrote with Lori McKenna, āStill Down Here.ā It wasĀ never a single or anything, but we got an overwhelming response with that one; peopleĀ will show us tattoos theyāve gotten of the lyrics from the song. People weāve never metĀ before. Itās amazing to know you have a song that struck a chord with someone and itāsĀ become a part of their life.
Who do you consider an underrated songwriter?
Thatās another long list…thereās Sean McConnell, Lori McKenna, Eric Church, TroyĀ Verges. Luke Laird is another one that comes to mind. There is a tendency in the āwriterĀ worldā to be all about heavy, ballads and big lyrics – I love those kind of songs too – andĀ Luke can write those. But one of the hardest things is to craft up-tempo songs that areĀ fresh and unique and Luke Laird consistently does it. From āLast Nameā to āTake A BackĀ Roadā to āAmerican Kidsā – he really is something.
What do you consider to be the perfect song, and why?
The perfect song stops you from the first line. They make you feel something more thanĀ you can control. You cry or you laugh, you drive faster and every time you hear it afterĀ that, it takes you back to that place. Some people say thereās no such thing as a perfectĀ song. I donāt think I listen like that; I think I love songs for what they are ā the melody, theĀ lyrics, the nostalgia it pulls out. So, Iām much more interested in wonderful songs thanĀ perfect songs; songs that move people and impact people.
I have a friend who is a painter and Iām not. When we go to a museum, I stand backĀ and either feel it or donāt, I like it or I donāt. He looks at each painting up close. He fallsĀ in love with just one color where he sees an amazing brush stroke, he sees momentsĀ of perfection in all the paintings. Like I said, Iām not a painter, but I guess I would like toĀ think that Iām a little more like that when it comes to songs.
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