Joni Mitchell Said This Pop Star Made America “Stupid,” Compared Her to Roman Emperor

Whether in song or speech, Joni Mitchell never shies away from what she believes to be true—including when she claimed a certain pop star from Michigan had turned America “stupid.” As harsh as Mitchell’s takes were, she offered some semblance of praise to the singer, even if it was a bit backhanded.

“Perhaps that bravado is in some ways to be applauded,” Mitchell once said of the singer in a 1991 interview with Rolling Stone. “But at what cost to her soul is my question.”

The Pop Star Joni Mitchell Said Made America “Stupid”

Joni Mitchell has always been a heady artist. Her musical repertoire is not only void of fluff. It directly combats it with material that is so profound, thought-provoking, and intensely vulnerable that it once made Kris Kristofferson uncomfortable. Mitchell mused on this overarching sense of melancholy in a 2010 interview with the Los Angeles Times.

During the interview, Mitchell described her first four albums as covering the “usual youth problems” like love and identity. “Things start losing their profundity. In middle-late age, you enter a tragedian period, realizing that the human animal isn’t changing for the better. In a way, I think I entered straight into my tragedian period, as my work is set against the stupid, destructive way we live on this planet.”

“Americans have decided to be stupid and shallow since 1980,” Mitchell continued. “Madonna is like Nero. She marks the turning point.” Mitchell, of course, was referencing the fifth Roman Emperor whose reign lasted from 54 to 68 AD. Nero’s legacy is infamous for debauchery and extravagance.

Differing Takes On What Defines Feminine Power

Throughout her decades-long career, Joni Mitchell has possessed a somewhat earthly, spiritual sense of femininity. She never gave in to typical beauty or gender constructs, preferring to learn toward the androgynous. Bob Dylan’s comments about her being “more of a man” than a woman didn’t bother her, as she explained in her 1991 interview with Rolling Stone. She argued they were probably right.

The conversation shifted toward other artists who approach their femininity differently, namely, Madonna. When Rolling Stone posited that perhaps Madonna was a feminist for exploiting her sexuality in ways that Mitchell never did, the songwriter replied, “What’s the difference between her and a hard hooker, you know? Who’s being exploited there? She’s reveling in herself, too. But she can take it. I guess that’s what it is. It’s just being able to take it, you know.”

“People don’t realize how horrible it is,” Mitchell said of the industry’s sexualization and exploitation of artists. “I think you’ve got to be hard as nails. Maybe that’s where Madonna has the edge. Maybe she doesn’t think it’s horrible. I think it’s degrading, humiliating. Whereas Madonna’s above being degraded or humiliated. She flirts with it. And perhaps that bravado is in some ways to be applauded; but at what cost to her soul, is my question.”

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