Rufus Wainwright Goes Song Diving

Rufus Wainwright joined us for our new podcast, Song Diving, where he went deep into the songs he’s written and the songs that wrote him. From a life-changing Nina Simone album to a body of work spanning pop, opera, folk, and the great American songbook, it’s a thoughtful, revealing look at a truly singular artist.

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You can hear the full episode everywhere you get your podcasts, but here are a few moments from that conversation.

On the Moment That Changed Everything

Dean Fields, host of Song Diving: Looking back, was there a listening experience that changed the way you understood music?

Rufus Wainwright: I remember it was raining outside. It was this kind of gloomy northern afternoon, and it was getting dark real fast.

And I found this old Nina Simone record. I’d always sort of seen her in my mother’s collection, but I’d never really gotten her.

I just put on this album and it was just her alone at the piano. I ended up listening to the whole record and in the process kind of really figured out my path—in terms of gelling my love of classical music and American standards and songwriting into one kind of ball, especially involving the piano.

It was a religious experience in many ways. I’ll never forget it.

On Writing and Rewriting Songs

DF: Are you the type to fuss over a song and really work it out?

RW: Yeah. I go over and over and over. God bless my dear family who have to listen to me banging away at the same two chords for two hours.

I mean, sometimes there’ll be a song that comes incredibly fast and I just have to kind of get out of the way and let it arrive. And that’s always a great gift.

But a lot of the time I’m kind of slaving.

DF: What tends to get a song started for you?

RW: Well, a lyric will often come first. Just like a line. And then I’ll attach a melody to it, and then the melody will just go off to the races and the lyrics never kind of keep up.

So I usually just write out the whole song, and then I come back and try to, you know, hammer out the lyrics.

DF: What’s a song that took a long time that you really had to work?

RW: There’s a lot. “Foolish Love” took a long time. “I Don’t Know What It Is” took a long time to write.

“Cigarettes and Chocolate Milk” probably took a while to really hammer out. They tend to be the more epic ones with the more complicated piano arrangements. They’re sort of part of the process.

On Writing “Dinner At Eight”

DF: What do you remember about writing “Dinner At Eight”?

RW: The song “Dinner At Eight” was written after my first album had come out, and my dad and I had a terrible breakdown in terms of our relationship.

And I rushed home, and that song came very fast. It was this sort of angry response to something he’d said.

And then I kind of miraculously forgot about it. I really did.

And then when I heard it again a few years later, I was like, “Oh—this is a love song.”

I’m actually being very compassionate, and I desired more closeness.

So it was good to know that even though, in my kind of general person, I can be immature or something, in the songwriting part it has its own kind of intelligence. Which is a relief.

On Singing Moondog’s “High On A Rocky Ledge” with David Byrne

DF: What I wouldn’t give to sing Moondog with David Byrne.

RW: I’ve done a lot of singing with David Byrne over the years. We got to sing the Pearl Fishers duet together by Bizet, and that remains one of my favorite recordings that I’ve ever done.

But the Moondog track is very, very special. I’m very lucky to have been able to do that.

And Moondog feels like a kindred spirit. We’re cut from the same cloth in a way—our sensibility, our romantic sensibility.

These are just a few moments from our candid and insightful conversation with Rufus Wainwright. You can hear the full episode of Song Diving wherever you listen to podcasts, including Apple, Spotify, and Amazon.

Photo by Tony Hauser