Whoever said “making it” in music was easy never lived through 27 years of some no-hit wonders—and some hits—or surviving off of $10 a day while on tour in van.
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“Anyone looking for a quick hit and success story should run the other direction,” says Jeremy Skaller, who has lived through the aforementioned scenarios and other tribulations before arriving in his new place. “This life takes tremendous intestinal fortitude and epic patience.”
Co-founder of The Heavy Group, an artist management and production company for music, film, philanthropy, and wellness initiatives, Skaller goes by the company mantra of “Creators for creators,” and has already pushed former Vine star Bazzi into the multiplatinum realm, and is managing a assemblage of new artists like Kiana Ledé, Shaylen, Rice N’ Peas, and Alec King since company’s inception in 2016. Skaller has even worked songs with Rihanna, Ariana Grande, Ty Dolla $ign, Ella Vos, and Khalid under Orange Factory Repertoire, the publishing end of The Heavy Group.
American Songwriter chatted with the Grammy-nominated artist to break down the current musical landscape, making it in this ever-evolving, genre-bending business, over-saturated sounds, Finneas’ powers, “Bedroom Pop” and the phenomena of recording with the bare minimum, and finding “that” success.
American Songwriter: At what point does the shift happen? When does “I like songwriting” shift to “I am really good at this” to “I’m going to start a company and help others”? It seems like a progression that would take a long time, but it doesn’t seem like it did for you.
Jeremy Skaller: Are you kidding me? I’ve been making music since 1993. It took a very long time to get to a place where someone like you feels like I’m worth being interviewed. That’s 27 years of songs, most of which never saw the light of day. That’s 27 years of many musical projects that were commercial flops or never got off the ground. That’s 27 years of bad ideas that somehow led me to a few good ones—seven of those years of sitting in a van touring the world with my band on $200 a week and $10 a day per diem, and 11 [years] being beyond broke in NYC, having to decide on breakfast or public transit to the studio. (I couldn’t afford both). Man, it took a very long time for me, and I love that fact.
AS: For those entrepreneurial spirits, how do you continue to balance out the risk and reward of decisions that, now, don’t just impact you but many other people as you have grown the business(es)?
JS: I’ve tried my best to always leave people in a better place then I found them.
AS: Pop songs don’t generally get the respect in the greater songwriter arena. Hell, American Songwriter probably pushed that narrative as much as anyone until our recent shift to being genre agnostic. Have you noticed a shift in the landscape of the overall community or do you still think there are different ways that people treat LA writers/pop writers versus other Nashville-based writers?
JS: I don’t think this is a real thing at all. I’m not sure who is pushing this narrative or better said who is actually listening to that nonsense. A great song, regardless of genre, garners respect.
AS: Having heavy hitters on your roster is a nice way to secure consistent results. It also affords you the opportunity to be selective in your choosing of “who is next” and “who should we sign.” How do you find quality within the quantity?
JS: At every level you are competing with other people at that level, so it doesn’t get easier—ever! Sure you have more access or can get a call back faster, but I promise you that if we are looking at an artist, then so are any number of other successful teams. You should always be selective. Always!
AS: Finneas was on the cover of our July issue, headlined “The Next Great Songwriter Is Already Here.” At 22, his resume is incredible. Do you think the “Bedroom Pop” revolution is something that will continue to burn bright and produce more talent?
JS: Finneas is incredible. When I think of Bedroom Pop, I think of music I would only listen to in the privacy of my bedroom, like a guilty pleasure listening playlist. For me, that would probably be Christopher Cross or any of the Burt Bacharach disciples. Kids making music in their bedrooms is the future. We manage Bazzi, and that kid can literally make a song with a cardboard box and an iPhone. The technological edge here is not to be overlooked. When I was making hit records myself as a producer, we needed a studio, full-stop. My dear Friend Duro started mixing in the box long before anyone else did, and people thought he was nuts. Now look at the world. The great songwriters and artists of the future are here, making songs on their phones and with friends over Zoom and FaceTime.
AS: Do you think there’s an over-mining of that “it all sounds the same” genre yet?
JS: I don’t really see an issue with how people record period. I am not sure the listener is that aware of the how of things, in that sense. I mean lets take Wu-Tang Clan for example. RZA used an ASR-10 and went stereo out into his huge Neve Board. He didn’t use anything but two channels, so in that sense he was making music no differently with the big fancy Neve, than he would have made in his bedroom. Sure, the sound quality got better, but much of the process was the same. I bet that Finneas can make a record in any environment, because his process is his process—bedroom, home studio or otherwise.
AS: So how do you determine the weight and feel of that? If you notice that a trend has started to hit a saturation point, but there are still gains to be made, do you keep going after it or do you start trying to find that “what is next” trend?
JS: Trends today are just on a constant cycle. I remember five years ago, if you didn’t have a “drop” in your record, it wasn’t current sounding. Then the drop went away, and now I’m hearing drops again. I think the genre-blending that is happening makes it hard for one trend to stick for too long. I think it all starts to blend into new things, and it all just moves faster than ever before. Also, artists are releasing more music then even before, so they are able to genre jump more easily and try things out.
AS: Do you think TikTok can provide another Bazzi? Is social media going to continue to have as much of an influence, or will there be some recoil as it gets more granular again?
JS: Social media has been the number one driving factor in artist discovery for years. I find it interesting that we still talk about it at all. It’s the same as radio, as touring, and as music videos. It’s not going anywhere any time soon. Even hugely established artists these days need a push from TikTok or YouTube.
AS: Specific of Heavy, how do you prepare your people to work with others? Writing sessions can go any number of ways, so how do you break in new people to rooms that maybe already have other working relationships?
JS: Well I think for us, or any other established team, it’s a little easier to break into new rooms and form new relationships. The track record helps people want to work with our team and who we suggest. Also, because we’ve had success we can sense or have a hunch about who would be good with our people, new or established. For a new writer or artist, you just have to constantly try and prove that you are talented and that your writing is relevant. I listen to lots of demos from unproven producers, writers or artists. It can be overwhelming, because there are So many music makers now and access to everyone is a DM away. But keep trying. Also linking up with a slightly more established writer-producer is helpful as well. You can leapfrog steps if you align yourself with people that are already working.
AS: What advice would you give folks who struggle with breaking through? It seems like once that first big one breaks, more things fall into place—meaning, people want to work with you. How do you get people get to that point?
JS: We are in an age where there is endless work for the non-famous or non-established artist/producer-writer.You can self release material and make money from streaming. You can self promote in ways that would have been impossible 10 or 15 years ago. You have access to the entire globe via social media. Find partners, create collaborations find your people and get busy. There is no excuse for lack of connectivity or lack of creative outlet these days. I always say you should be making money while you are waiting to make money, so get busy on a small level. The big wins happen when you stack the small ones up over time.
AS: How should songwriters judge success?
JS: What you do in life should be based on how you feel about yourself, not the inverse. Your achievements should not define how you feel about yourself. As such, the best way to achieve “that” success is to love what you do. Enjoy the process. It’s a journey, not a race. If you find happiness in the struggle, you will find happiness in the achievements and that is what I call success.
To learn more about The Heavy Group, check out its website.
Photo credit Amit And Naroop
